Preparing for the Invasion - #21 - Jesus Restored Purity Outside the Sacrificial System

Muslims wash their hands and feet here before praying in the mosque
on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem

(C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, called Christmas "The Great Invasion.")

When I was growing up, my parents did not allow a deck of playing cards in the house. Card-playing was wrong, it was sin, and therefore made us spiritually impure. I didn't know why this was so. As a child I didn't question it or find it weird. 

When I became a Jesus-follower I began to wonder where this purity law came from. I found out that, among the Finnish Lutherans of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan where my family was from and where I was born, card-playing was associated with drinking and gambling. Someone who was a Christian didn't drink, gamble, or play cards. We were to be "set apart" from such things because they were impure and brought stain to our souls. Put biblically, we were to be "holy" (Greek hagios, 'set apart'). God would be pleased if we kept the cards out of our house.

This is called a "holiness code." Every culture has one, with accompanying purity laws. Purity laws are lists of religious 'Dos' and 'Don'ts'. For example, during Jesus's time, one could not touch a dead body lest it make you ritually impure. Or eat certain foods.

"Impurity" is a sort of invisible dirt that people pick up through contact with various things. In ancient Judaism one contracted impurity through contact with things like corpses, sexual fluids, other genital discharges, skin diseases, and, in the case of women, through childbirth.

New Testament scholar Richard Bauckham writes: 

"Originally, in Judaism, purity and impurity only really mattered when one visited the Temple. God’s presence in the Temple made it a kind of pure space that would be defiled by someone in a state of impurity.  But by the 1st century AD, there was a tendency to think that, since purity was a good thing, one should aim at being pure as much as possible. 

All over Palestine, archaeologists have found ritual baths [mikvah], which indicate that it was not just groups such as the Pharisees who cared about purity. Many ordinary people evidently took care to remove impurity when they contracted it. It was part of the desire to be the holy people of the holy God." (Bauckham, Jesus: A Very Short Introduction, p. 23)

Jesus violated many of the existing purity laws. In doing this he clashed with the religious leaders of his time. Larry Hurtado and Chris Keith write:

"Jesus’s healing and teaching caused turmoil for Jewish leaders because it created a point of access— Jesus himself— to forgiveness and purity outside the sacrificial system and the temple. It also therefore created alternative definitions for who is in God’s community, who is out, and who decides. Jesus placed himself at the center of God’s restoration of Israel, a place that Jewish tradition reserved for God. These symbolic claims from Jesus, among other aspects of his ministry, are what infuriated the Jewish leadership in the Gospels." (Hurtado, Larry; Keith, Chris, Jesus among Friends and Enemies: A Historical and Literary Introduction to Jesus in the Gospels, Kindle Locations 992-996; emphasis mine)

Jesus redefined purity, giving us a new way of attaining it before God. Many impure people, hearing of this, sought out Jesus. Jesus was now the road, the door, the Way, the point of access, into the family and presence of a holy God.

The hemorrhaging woman was impure according to Leviticus 15: 25; the ten lepers were impure according to Leviticus 13– 14; the woman who washes Jesus’s feet, if a prostitute, was impure according to Leviticus 15: 17– 18; and Zacchaeus was likely considered impure because he consistently came in contact with impure gentiles and handled their money. Jesus’s healing of the bleeding woman, lepers, and sinful woman restored their purity, just as dining with Zacchaeus as a legitimate “son of Abraham” symbolically restores Zacchaeus to Israel. (From Hurtado and Keith, K986-991; emphasis mine)

Bauckham says the key question for Jews during this time was how to maintain purity and be God's holy people in the situation of the hyper-impure Roman occupation. Facing this situation, the Pharisees "greatly extended the purity rules in the Torah and made purity a major concern of daily life" (Bauckham, 25)

Into this world came Jesus, who stood against the social, economic and gender stratifications of his society. He fought against Judaism's purity codes. 

Purity codes are about distinctions, divisions, and separation. Jesus broke down the walls of separation from God and others as he proclaimed and lived out the new reality of the Kingdom of God.  He ate with the poor, with outcasts, and sinners. Jesus touched and healed the sick -- the leper, the demoniac, the hemorrhaging woman. 

In doing this he shattered and subverted ritual law. Jesus disregarded the existing purity taboos and approached both women and Gentiles, thereby demonstrating his contempt for the prejudices of purity.

Jesus moved outside the prevailing religious system of atoning sacrifices, and independently - in himself and by his authority - proclaimed the forgiveness of sin and thus restored purity and holiness to people. 

² A man with leprosy came and knelt before him 

and said, “Lord, if you are willing, 

you can make me clean.” 

³ Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!”

Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. 

⁴ Then Jesus said to him, 

“See that you don’t tell anyone. 

But go, show yourself to the priest 

and offer the gift Moses commanded, 

as a testimony to them.”

- Matthew 8:2-4

The Real Jesus came to make people clean, holy and acceptable to God.

***

My two books are:

Leading the Presence-Driven Church

Praying: Reflections on 40 Years of Solitary Conversations with God

Deconstructing the "Holidays" to Uncover the Meaning of "Christmas"

"Black Friday" and "Cyber-Monday" are over. The Thanksgiving days of feasting are now days of healthy, moderate eating. I'm about to sit down for a bowl of cereal with bananas. 

I turn on the TV. "Holiday" stuff is on. So is a special on Christmas and the White House. I actually heard, on TV, the word "Christmas" several times!

But little of this "holiday" stuff really concerns Christmas. Because...  

#1 - Christmas has nothing to do with shopping. 

I’m not against shopping. I like to go to the mall with Linda and look around. I like the crowds and the lights and the music and the candy. I like eating red and green M&Ms. Yet all these things have nothing to do with Christmas. 

What, then, is Christmas about? There’s a big clue in the word itself. Christmas has to do with “Christ.” What does that mean? The word “Christ” means “anointed King.” Jesus is “the Christ,” the anointed King. "Christ" is the Greek word for the Hebrew word "Messiah."

"Christmas" = Messiah has come.

#2 - Christmas has nothing to do with gift-giving. 

But what about the wise men who brought gifts? They came after Jesus was born. Remove them from your manger scene and place them somewhere outside the house, perhaps down the road a ways. They did bring gifts to honor Jesus’ birth. They did not go shopping to buy gifts to give one another. 

Is it wrong to do that? I don’t think so. I love giving gifts to my family. I like opening gifts. But giving gifts to one another has nothing to do with Christmas. Except that, in Jesus, God gave a great Gift to all humanity. For that Gift, I remain eternally grateful. "

Christmas" = A Gift, from God, to us.

#3 - Christmas has nothing to do with tree-decorating. 

Is it wrong to have a Christmas tree? I don’t think so. I like decorating the tree every year. I like the lights, especially old-fashioned large multi-colored ones. I enjoy going to Bronner's, just 75 miles north of us. But decorated trees have nothing to do with Christmas. Read the original Christmas story in both Matthew and Luke and see for yourself. There were no trees or lights or tinsel. And, it didn't smell like fresh-cut pine.

"Christmas" = the birth of God's Son, who would eventually be crucified on a tree.

#4 - Christmas has nothing to do with snow. 

When first-century Jews hoped for a Messiah (a “Christ”), not one of them was dreaming of a white Christmas. Those ancient people were under great political oppression. They could care less if it snowed or not. I care. Linda doesn't. Nonetheless, "snow" is neither an essential attribute nor a contingent attribute of "Christmas."

"Christmas" = Messiah who comes to make us, righteously, "whiter than snow." (Ps. 51:7)

#5 - Christmas has nothing to do with the economy. 

I have friends who are local retailers, and I want them to do well. Many of them have given their business over to God. I am thankful for their focus on Jesus, as they work creatively and hard to make a living, all to the glory of God. I pray for them to be greatly blessed, to include financially! 

I like a stable American economy. But here's the point, which we must never lose sight of. Christmas has nothing to do with a consumer economy. The angels were not rejoicing because Christmas sales were up as a result of the Christ being born. 

Get this: God’s Son was born into radical poverty. Mary ended up singing about how God would now finally help the poor and the hungry and the marginalized and the oppressed. 

"Christmas" = the beginning of the "Great Reversal," where the proud, mighty, and rich are brought down and the poor, hungry, and lowly are exalted. (See Luke 1:46-55, e.g.)

I like the holidays. For me and Linda, the days of Christmas are truly holy-days. They remind me of times with my parents and brother when I was growing up. And times Linda and I had with our sons. They remind Linda and I of a son of ours, David, who died, which made one holiday season not so jolly. They remind me of Linda's father Del, who lived with us for seven years until he died on New year's Eve 2012. (Deck the halls with melancholy...)

Still, I like the holidays ,and I love Real Christmas Music, which I'm listening to right now (HERE). 

But mostly, I love Jesus. 

When I became a follower of Jesus I left a life of drug and alcohol abuse forever. I doubt I’d be alive today if not for Jesus. Jesus still fills my life, now more than ever as I grow older. This time of the year is another opportunity to experience and encounter and think about the Christ, my Savior, and yours too.

"Christmas" = love, worship, and adoration of Christ the Lord, King, Savior, Redeemer, Rescuer, Bondage-Breaker, Lamb of God, Revolutionary, promised Messiah, my Lord and my God.



*****
On "deconstruction" see - More Thoughts on Deconstruction

***

My two books are:

Leading the Presence-Driven Church

Praying: Reflections on 40 Years of Solitary Conversations with God

Religious Faith Is Good for Families

The River Raisin

In The God Delusion religious non-scholar Richard Dawkins claimed that parents who teach their religious beliefs to children are guilty of "child abuse." In The End of Faith Sam Harris declares that religious extremism is "the greatest problem confronting civilization."

But is religious faith toxic? The answer is: No, according to University of Virginia's W. Bradford Wilcox, director of UVA's National Marriage Project. In fact, religious faith is actually good for families. (See The Washington Post, "The latest social science is Wrong. Religion is good for families and kids.")

Bradford's findings include:

• On average, religion is a clear force for good when it comes to family unity and the welfare of children — the most important aspects of our day-to-day lives.
• Americans who regularly attend religious services are less likely to cheat on their partners.
• They are less likely to abuse their partners.
• They are less likely to divorce.
• They are more likely to enjoy happier marriages.
• Religious parents spend more time with their children.
• Religious teens are more likely to shun lying, cheating, and stealing, and to identify with the Golden Rule.
• Children from religious families are “rated by both parents and teachers as having better self-control, social skills and approaches to learning than kids with non-religious parents,” according to a nationally representative study of more than 16,000 children across the United States.
• Faith is a net positive when it comes to “prosocial behavior” among American children.
• Religious parents are also more likely to report praising and hugging their school-aged children.

Wilcox cites the findings of French sociologist Emile Durkheim, who concluded:

• What makes religion vital, in part, is that it provides rituals, beliefs and a sense of group identity that deepens people’s connections to the moral order. In his words, the faithful “believe in the existence of a moral power to which they are subject and from which they receive what is best in themselves.” (Obviously this is absent in atheism. On the absence of God there is no reason to be moral.)
• The rituals associated with religion lend meaning to life, including its most difficult moments and seasons — from the loss of a job to the loss of a loved one.
• Religious rituals encourage us to take our family roles more seriously and to help us deal with the stresses that can otherwise poison family relationships. The norms — from fidelity to forgiveness — taught in America’s houses of worship tend to reinforce the faithful’s commitments to their spouses, family members and children and give them a road map for dealing with the disappointments, anger and conflicts that crop up in all family relationships. And as one of the most powerful sources of social capital outside of the state and workplace today, religious social networks provide support to millions of Americans.

Of course there are religious families that are unhealthy. (As there are brutal atheistic families.) But, writes Wilcox, "religion in America is not the corrosive influence that it’s often made out to be nowadays. On the contrary, for many Americans, it’s a source of inspiration that redounds not only to their benefit, but also to their families and communities."

***

My two books are:

Leading the Presence-Driven Church

Praying: Reflections on 40 Years of Solitary Conversations with God

Preparing for the Invasion - #20 - Jesus Had a Preferential Option for "the Least of These"

(C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, referred to Christmas as "The Great Invasion.")

I have read through the four Gospels many times. Their words are both familiar and unfamiliar to me. 

They are familiar. I have read and heard and taught and preached the words of Jesus many times. 

They are unfamiliar. I have many moments, indeed I often wonder if they are not increasing, where I am stopped in heart and mind and think, "I've never really seen this or heard this before." It happened to me several years ago when reading Matthew chapter 25.

The fiery passion of Jesus is seen in Matthew 25:31-46 when he talks about actively loving and caring for "the least of these." When I read these words I have wondered, who are the real followers of the Real Jesus? If you can, stop now before reading further and slow-read these verses.  

And tremble. 

Behold Jesus, the "Familiar Stranger."



Woman begging in Jerusalem

You don't need to be a hermeneutical genius to understand these words. Jesus separates people into two groups: "goats," and "sheep." "Goats" are people who see hungry, needy, sick, thirsty, homeless, and imprisoned people but do nothing to help them. "Sheep," on the other hand, are the real followers of Jesus who thereby, obviously (since it is Jesus whom they are following), actively help such people. Jesus himself was tight with the "least of these."

N. T. Wright says that Jesus “ate and drank with all sorts and conditions of people, sometimes in an atmosphere of celebration. He ate with ‘sinners’, and kept company with people normally on or beyond the borders of respectable society… This caused regular offence to some of the pious.” (N.T. Wright, Jesus and the Victory of God, 149) 

"Goats" are religious, pious people who know about the suffering of others (and who doesn't today in our media-saturated world?), but don't actually follow Jesus into the slums of the world. "Goats" don't actively and sacrificially help the people who are low on the honor-shame hierarchy. The fate of the goats is clear: "they will go away to eternal punishment." (Matthew 25:46). 

"Sheep" are actual Jesus-followers. They sacrifice their lives for others who are "less" than they are. They are the "righteous," and their destiny is "eternal life." The sheep of the Shepherd are always moving downward into their surrounding culture.

There's a great, separating, spiritual-litmus-test going on here, a Christ-defining either-or. The level of seriousness is intense. Jesus came for the least and the lost. Not to actively do the same is to be a goatish unbeliever. Because someone who doesn't actually follow after Jesus is an unbeliever, right? True belief always leads to active following; theoretical-religious belief is dead because it lacks deeds.

I am the judge of none of this. But I can read.

“For I was hungry, while you had all you needed. I was thirsty, but you drank bottled water. I was a stranger, and you wanted me deported. I needed clothes, but you needed more clothes. I was sick, and you pointed out the behaviors that led to my sickness. I was in prison, and you said I was getting what I deserved.”
- Matthew 25, paraphrased by Richard Stearns, in The Hole in our Gospel, 59.

For it isn't to the palace that the Christ child comes

But to shepherds and street people, hookers and bums

- Bruce Cockburn, "Cry of a Tiny Babe"

***

My two books are:

Leading the Presence-Driven Church

Praying: Reflections on 40 Years of Solitary Conversations with God

Coming Conferences & Giving a Gift

GIVE THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING Give someone a life-impacting experience, with eternal value by Gifting their registration to a conference ! Arise & Thrive: Called By His Spirit!  A Women's Conference. March 14-16 Monroe, Michigan Register Here Holy Spirit Conference 2019: Love, Truth & Power June 23-27 Green Lake, Wisconsin Register Here LOVE came down at Christmas and you can help others experience His love, power and presence. Think outside the box (Christmas box that is!) and register your friends, family, pastor, or church leaders for one of these amazing 2019 conferences. A gift like this has impact far beyond Christmas 2018 and can forever change a person, family or church. Be a world-changer this Christmas and bring your loved one to an HSRM conference to get a dose of God's love, truth and power!

Register for Conferences

A SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY YOU CAN SPONSOR A WOMAN AND CHANGE HER LIFE! Sponsor a woman's registration to the Arise & Thrive conference by purchasing a Prepaid Voucher for $55 and change that woman's life in incomparable ways! HSRM wants to bless women that are at-risk and in need of a life-changing encounter with the Lord, who, but due to their circumstances, do not have access to Christian events and/or are unable to pay for registration fees. The leadership team of the Arise & Thrive conference has identified a number of ministries and shelters in the Monroe, Michigan area that house and/or serve at-risk women. With our voucher system in place Prepaid Voucher invitations are hand-delivered to women at shelters and service and helps ministries. When a woman calls us to redeem her voucher it is explained that the voucher has actual dollar value, and is a gift from God through His people. Many women have never had the opportunity to be immersed in the presence of the Lord at a Christian conference. Our desire is to see women's lives transformed, chains broken, and God's destiny for them activated. We are excited to have an impact in the lives of women who desperately need the ministry of the Word of God and Holy Spirit's touch. You can sponsor a women or two or more!  For $55 you can help a woman in need experience God and the love of his people. Would you please become a sponsor today? You can click here to be part of this unique outreach opportunity! To sponsor more than one at-risk woman indicate multiples of $55 in the contribution section such as $110, $165, $220 and so on. If wanting to pay by check please send to HSRM, c/o Richard Baldwin, 148 Winghurst Blvd., Orlando, FL 32828. Prepaid Voucher online purchase Thank you for your love and concern for at-risk women. We also seek your partnership in prayer, praying for God's transforming power to be manifest at Arise & Thrive: Called by His Spirit! "Freely we have received, freely we give!" M ay you be blessed in every way this Christmas and beyond.

hsrm.org

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Still More on Multiple Stacked Services and the Presence-Driven Church

When the community of Jesus-followers gather, might the Holy Spirit “show up?” Not if “show up” means “is in attendance.” I “show up” for Sunday morning worship “services.” (I put quotes around “services,” since it is not altogether clear who or what gets “serviced” at these gatherings.)

Why is the Holy Spirit present when the church gathers? For reasons such as these.

-       To lead and guide us, according to God’s purposes for us.

-       To strengthen, comfort, and encourage us, via manifesting himself.

-       To draw our worship towards Christ.

How will the Holy Spirit do this? What’s up with the Spirit when the Spirit comes?

1)   The Spirit leads, rather than attends. The Lord is our Shepherd, not our follower.

2)    The Spirit uses all the people, or at least various people, and not just the pastor. One person is given a song, another is given a word of encouragement, others manifest the Spirit for the building up of the community. Everyone is, potentially, a leader (= one who is led by the Spirit).

3)   The Spirit is supremely confident in leading Sunday morning worship events. After all, the Spirit is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent. Compared to the Spirit, we are blind, deaf, and ignorant.

Therefore, it seems to me…

1* - We follow the Spirit, and not vice versa. This assumes the followers of Jesus can hear from God. (See Dallas Willard’s Hearing God for the prevalence of this throughout Scripture.)

         2* - We equip the people for works of ministry, not just a few.

3* - The Spirit’s capabilities are so beyond-us that we should not expect to program Sunday mornings.

Because the activity of the Spirit is relational love and power, we cannot put a time limit on what the Spirit desires to do. We should not say, “Lord, have your way, but we’re only giving you an hour.” Or, "I'll follow You, but not if you go over an hour."

For this reason I see large churches with multiple stacked-and-timed services as being at a disadvantage when it comes to being presence-driven. Further, following the discernment of the likes of Eugene Peterson and A. W. Tozer (and many others), this is where American churches have catered to consumers, rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to consume people which, as this happens, removes the clocks from the sanctuary. 

***

My recent book is Leading the Presence-Driven Church. 

Preparing for the Invasion - #19 - Jesus's Views on Money Were Negative

Clare, Michigan

(C.S. Lewis, in Mere Christianity, referred to the Incarnateion as "The Great Invasion.")

While flying to Bangkok I had many tear-filled moments. I was reading Richard Stearns's heartbreaking, hopeful The Hole in Our Gospel: What Does God Expect of Us?, and Siddharth Kara's soul- troubling Sex Trafficking: Inside the Business of Modern Slavery. 

In Kara's book the poorest of the poor are bought and sold as sex slaves to satisfy the desires of the rich. In Stearns's book we see rich Christians watching flat-screen TVs and viewing the world's poor suffer.

Something is wrong with this picture.

Enter Jesus.

Jesus...

                                          i.    ...was not wealthy. While foxes have holes and birds have nests, Jesus didn't have a roof over his head. Jesus didn't have closets packed with robes and sandals for every occasion. (Matthew 8:20)

                                        ii.    ...was not impressed with the rich and famous. Jesus mostly viewed the rich and famous as spiritually bankrupt. It's near-impossible for the rich to come under the rule of God, taught Jesus. (Mark 10:23) Note: "Anyone earning fifty thousand a year has an income higher than 99 percent of the people in the world. Simply stated, by comparison the average American is, well, wealthy." (Stearns, 266)

                                       iii.    ...did not come to raise money for his ministry. Jesus didn't carry cash. Jesus was always giving away to others. Ironically, Judas carried what little money the entourage of Jesus had. Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the festival, or to give something to the poor. (John 13:29)

                                       iv.    ...did not come for the express purpose of multiplying your finances. To the contrary, Jesus said: Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. (Luke 12:32-34) Jesus came to tell us what true riches are.

                                        v.    ...did not operate according to cultural honor-shame hierarchies. Jesus climbed down the ladder, took on the form of an "expendable," and descended intio greatness. This is the upside-down kingdom of God. It permeates the Gospels. For example, in Mary's song of amazement: He has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty. (Luke 1:46-56)

                                       vi.    ...was not self-seeking. Jesus came, not to be served, but to serve others. (Matthew 20:28)

It was Jesus who told us in Matthew 6:24 – “You can’t serve both God and Mammon.” (‘Mammon’ is the Aramaic word for riches or wealth.) Riches, said Jesus, put a chokehold on the kingdom of God. (Luke 8:13-15) Riches prevent the releasing of God's reign.

Scott Rodin writes, in his book Stewards in the Kingdom:

"We must never for single moment lose sight of the stark realization that whenever we deal with money, we are dealing with dynamite. That is the one day that which we control, the next day becomes the controller. Such dynamite must be defused, and the greatest defuser that we as Christians have at our disposal is the opportunity to take that which seeks to dominate us and simply give it away. Think about it. There is not greater expression of money's total lack of dominance over us or of its low priority in our lives than when we can with joy and peace, give it away for the Lord's work. You cannot worship the God of mammon and be a free and cheerful giver. Likewise, you cannot serve the living God and be a hoarder of his resources. Giving, both how we give and how much we give, is the clearest outward expression of who our God really is. Our check stubs speak more honestly of our priorities than our church memberships." (Quoted in Stearns, 212) 

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
- Paul, advising Timothy, in 1 Timothy 6:10


***
A few reviews of Stearns's book:

"With passionate urging and earnestness, Rich Stearns challenges Christians to embrace the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ by embracing the neediest and most vulnerable among us. After reading the moving stories, the compelling facts and figures, and Stearns' excellent application of scripture and his own experiences at World Vision, you will no doubt be asking yourself: What should I do?" ----Chuck Colson, Founder, Prison Fellowship

"Read this compelling story and urgent call for change-Richard Stearns is a contemporary Amos crying 'let justice roll down like waters….' Justice is a serious gospel-prophetic mandate. Far too many American Christians for too long a time have left the cause to 'others.' Read it as an altar call." -- --Eugene H. Peterson, translator of The Message, Professor Emeritus of Spiritual Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, BC

"This book is a clarion call for the church to arise and answer the question, Who is my neighbor? If you read this book, you will be inspired, but if you do what this book is asking, you will be forever changed." --- T.D. Jakes, pastor of the Potter's House of Dallas

***

My two books are:

Leading the Presence-Driven Church

Praying: Reflections on 40 Years of Solitary Conversations with God

Church Gatherings Are About "Led," not "Length"

Frost on my car window this morning.

How long should a Sunday morning church gathering be?

That is the wrong question. 

When the church gathers, it is not about "length," but about "led."

It's all about God and his presence. It's about following the leading of the Holy Spirit. 

Forget "length." The "how long" question is about method. Focus on discernment + obedience. Do what the Spirit says. Follow as the Spirit guides. This is about relationship. How long the gathering goes on is irrelevant to relationship.

This is a different paradigm. Within the different paradigm, the questions are different. Instead of "How long should the "service" be?", or "What will the visitors think?", the questions become "What is the Spirit saying to us?", and "How is God guiding us?" 

I go into more detail in my book Leading the Presence-Driven Church.